reinforced bythe simple observation that you have never actually posted here before[at least under your supplied handle/ID]. >>>>>>>>>>>>And didn't Ziegler subsequently admit that the Somerton people> only learned of Bill's identity as a result of becoming suspicious of> his manner of arrival and the costume-rental receipt in his coat> pocket?<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > So maybe they were all wearing walkie talkies under those masks, what do, > you want me to say?..no, this IS left as a huge mystery. The poolroom scene is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, while at the same time, being simplke and concrete. Again, how is it 'clearly' the same voice? The rhizomatic uncertainties and> > uncanny inconsistencies multiply >> "Rhizomatic uncertainties"?>> I actually had to look that up. No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" Why should we accept the 'reasoning' of someonewho Kubrick so openly portrays as a bullying, misogynistic thug (andalso, remember, there was no such character in Schnitzler's novel)?Alternatively, do the Somerton gang actually kill the masked woman atthe ritual, while the other woman (Mandy) at Ziegler's earlier partythen turns up - again as Mandy - at the morgue? -Herodotus, You do not have permission to delete messages in this group, Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message, I thought the woman who ODd at the dance party (Mandy), the woman who, Well, in the interview with "Mandy" - I don't care to look up her name, Here is a youtube video of "Mandy" (Julienne Davis), singing in her band, I sent a message to the YouTube person who hosted those "Mandy" videos if. Was she the women at the party?" Bill is, after all, wearing a mask; not only that, butthe Mandy who was in Ziegler's bathroom the night before was 1. sodrugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense ofanything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligiblemumbling), Ziegler doing all the talking and explaining. Statanic mass? >>Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from the bathroom, till he happened to >>see the news story and saw the name "Amanda," then it started to come >>together.>, > These last points I've already covered>. Poor pitiful morons that we all are -thank Bog he's put off Nirvana for so long. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. I never siad Bill recognized him.we get to recognize him when we study it. People were dancing, there was music wearing costumes, and although it was strange, calling it a "party," would not be unusual in the slightest. He may literally have to go underground, or to the moon, etc. And of course how did > the mask get on his pillow? No comments. Same voice. I think the voice would have rung a bell and > the Newspaper story rang a bell, with the name Amanda, and of course > seeing the corpse of someone who may have sacrificed her life for him--so > he was in shock. Whereas atSomerton, Ziegler and the others only first become suspicious of Billas an interloper because of how he arrived there (in a taxi ratherthan a limousine). Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elitesdoesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who dorecognise the realities of social power and of desire are justparanoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those whoattribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are beingproperly paranoid). at the >> ceremony/orgy.>, > Again, how is it 'clearly' the same voice?>. I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any way. >Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays >her voice in his head while looking over the body. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, ME> You can identify Pollack's eyes and chin quite easily in the close ups.>. To take Tess or Barry Lyndon in the same context is perhaps moreappropriate to various periods stylistically divergent from an intentor device for Picasso to depict women;- a later advancement thatneedn't further qualification than figures posed in gold, as was aliteral premium exacted upon proceeds, so written by one later model,over stipends derived from the estate. Indeed, the film iscentrally concerned with the failure of a 'male-centric' andpatriarchal ideology to deal with female desire; and the narrativethrust of the film revolves around Bill's increasingly hopelessefforts to flee from (but also to copy and avenge) Alice's desire, adesire from which he is completely excluded, just as he is laterexcluded from the desire-space of the power-elite at Somerton. Well, in the interview with "Mandy" - Julienne Davis. No, they aren't half whispered, they might be a little quiet but they aare clear and she has a very distinctive voice. and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing >> this," Mandy says, "Ya." WebChords for Backward Priests, normal version of Masked Ball Eyes wide shut with lyrics. I am normally the last guy in theworld to criticize somebody for using big words, but, besides that you'renot bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using themserves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. Technology has caught up with his disguises andcovers. WebThat particular Royal event featured masked women who were as NOT dressed as those in the Eyes Wide Shut ritual. While the final movie was greeted with somewhat mixed reviews at the time, the appreciation for Eyes Wide Shut has only grown since its 1999 debut. This is the implication of Dream Storytoo - with the movie being quite faithful to the structure of the novella - though Kubrick obviously leaves this moment up to interpretation. Well at least you're ostensibly modest enough to acknowledge yourunfamiliarity with such a concept, but then you proceed to betray yourdumb, sniggering agenda by perpetuating your ignorance with adismissive, anti-intellectual fart: > My extra-fat dictionary yields the> following: "rhi'zome, n. A rootlike stem under or along the ground,> ordinarily in a horizontal position, which usually sends out roots from> from its lower surface and leafy shoots from its upper surface.". >He also must have recognized> the voice, considering that her voice is somewhat deep and throaty with a> tinge of distinctive accent. (meaning the Mysterious woman) "victor the woman lying dead at the morgue was the women at the party, well victor, maybe i'm missing something heyou call it a Charadetell me what kind of Charade ends up with someone dead.". If those 2-3 women were supposed to be the same woman, Kubrick would, I thought this film was much less interesting than the competing film, In rec.arts.movies.past-films Kelpzoidzl <, In rec.arts.movies.past-films Harry Bailey <, On Feb 26, 3:27pm, "Avoid normal situations. ", "Victor what can I say. But it is obvious from Kubrick's portrayal of Somerton that thewomen are there purely as sex-workers, are there toservice the inner sanctum of male patriarchy in the ritualized desire-space of the power elite at Somerton. How doesshe know this? SoZiegler's principal role in the film and in this scene is as anunscrupulous defender of wealth and power and as a power-brokerintermediary (laying down the Law while also routinely transgressingit), threateningly indicating to Bill just what the rich and powerfulcan do and what they can get away with. This is Eyes Wide Shut revisited. This is simple. Poor Clark. If he wereZiegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privatelycommunicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly aspossible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Zieglersubsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like acomplete fool')? Mandy was not the same woman. He only ultimately accepts Ziegler's account because it> gives him a convenient alibi (as well as because of Ziegler's powerful> position - Bill is Ziegler's man, obeying his orders, subscribing to> the demands and realities of Ziegler's world). S he was the same woman who overdosed at Victor Ziegler's party earlier in the movie. And even if it was clear, even if he hadreferred directly to the events of the night before as the (Somerton)party, it would still be uncertain, because. The official cause of death was from a heart attack. (3) With the advent of cyberspace, and just simple disinterest many newspaper companies have gone under. > Well I hope you see now that this is clear after reading the dialogue. Perhaps the conspiracies surrounding Eyes Wide Shut began when the maker of the film, Stanley Kubrick, died only days after the first viewing of it. It's profoundly, structurally, indeterminate >>> 1. so drugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense ofanything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligiblemumbling),<<<. Even though much was 'cleared" up there are still major mysteries here that unless they are encoded in single frames for analyssis will alwasy be a mystery. Desire is always the desire of theOther our dreams constituring the realisation of desire. (4) With many people using Google maps-gps/satellite views scouring the earth, his Fortress of Solitude could be exposed. In fact, the only actual dream in the film is unseen, is onlylater described - namely, Alice's dream/nightmare about having sexwith numerous men (strikingly similar to the fate of the women atSomerton) in which Bill is openly humiliated, and told to Bill justafer he returns from Somerton. And isn't this the mistake that many of the film'scritics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidydenouement? But then, Ziegler's 'explanation', his retconningof past events, only serves to further propel Bill into subjectivedestitution, another 'replay' of Bill's unmasking at Somerton, Zieglerpower-presiding over Bill's position and status at a red pool-tablemuch like Red Cloak presided over the power ritual on a red carpet atSomerton. In Eyes Wide Shut, Abigail Good plays a `Mysterious Woman'. >In a big crowd of masked> people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is). Mon 14th Feb 2022 19.00 GMT. I agree though, he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet. In the spur of the moment people might first recognize voices, subliminally. This is Eyes Wide Shut revisited. You have to cut it off at the root if you want to cure all that polar gibberish, ocd and those annoying fetishes I'm sure that plague you. >>>>>>>>If this were really thecase, wouldn't Bill have recognised that voice when speaking to themasked woman at Somerton, instead of asking her "Who are you?" On Friday, July 17, 2015 at 5:36:03 PM UTC-4, JD Chase wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjMIROKzH7s, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4N4vSijHTM, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOhxWdGuQd4, [email protected], https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inLfK535oxs. OT. '<<<<<<<<<<< I think it is clear he was > referring to the Somerton party. What a mish mash of mentalmasturbation that is..", " Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling. Let him go! But maybe he's just practicing forhis Boddhisatva qualification tests.- you know, the 'enlightening thegreat unwashed masses' thing. > Take another listen. Here was Stanley Kubrick, for many the worlds greatest living filmmaker, returning with his first finished project in 12 years a sexually provocative adult drama, utterly shrouded in secrecy, starring pre-eminent Hollywood power couple Tom >He also must have recognized the voice, considering that her voice is >somewhat deep and throaty with a tinge of distinctive accent. Wasn't the woman in the mask a lot skinnier than the ODd woman?? In one of the final scenes, Bill comes home and as he comes to bed he sees Alice (Nicole Kidman) sleeping next to the same Venetian mask he wore at the party. >> >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? I mean hewas filmed only in england, but the photography behind him in thatglove clapping shot is projected or whatever and so that means that hedidn't care that mucha bout switching things around like actresses andstuff, it's about masks anyway the movie is. It is only when Ziegler responds> positively to Bill's question, "The woman at the party is the woman in> the morgue?" He was a master ofthatslight of hand stuff. WebEyes Wide Shut is Stanley Kubricks love letter to his wife. that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, hasit confirmed by someone else (Ziegler)", Ditto. The movie went through post-production following Stanley Kubrick's death, though some have argued about how much it represents his intended vision. --alt.flame Special Forces"All successful software gets changed." But the worst thing is your silly and smug arrogance. Perhaps itwould have worked better if there had been a photo in the newsarticle. As opposed to arborescent: two contrasting concepts central to muchphilosophical debate over the past few decades (see, for instance, thework of philosophers Deleuze and Guattari). Eyes Wide Shut is Stanley Kubrick's final movie starring Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman, but what does the mask on the pillow near the end mean? The point, however, is that even if all three female> 'characters' are the same woman (and so, effectively, the same> character), this serves to set up even more contradictions, not to> mention buying in to Ziegler's warped, patriarchal world."<<<<<<<<<<>. <<<<<<<<<<. The 'mystery' is how SHE knows that he is an interloper. because Bill didn't get to see him up close like the film > audience.>, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Again, is this not another case of> 'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simply> because of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?> And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member of> the power elite? NG was :>the realization of that potential. The main point, was that that kind of mental approach to things, is actually the biggest impediment to focusing the mind. >>>>>>>>>>>And didn't Ziegler subsequently admit that the Somerton peopleonly learned of Bill's identity as a result of becoming suspicious ofhis manner of arrival and the costume-rental receipt in his coatpocket?<<<<<<<<<<<<<. When I did this, at first it seems like a similar, but different face, but then seeing one frame of the bathroom scene from a certain angle, it jumped out at me that it was the same person, but I could be wrong. Somerton could hardly be >> >>>>>> described (and>, >> certainly not by Bill) as a 'party.'<<<<<<<<<<<. Every woman Bill meets in the film wants him, wants to be with him; Alice > It's totally clear the "party' in this reference, is Somerton. Harry, you are calling him a troll for criticizing your manic, vain and pretentious word salad? (Video in comments) : r/Ghostbc Jocelyn Pook and Opening Title Music from Eyes Wide Shut (1999) | walkerhomeschoolblog. 1. I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you mean, but the way you're saying it is silly. Those critics of EWS must have been delerious. (1) As more people opt for lasik surgery, he will not be able to hide behind those specs. orpsychotherapists. If it is vague, then how can it also be 'clear'? Statanic mass?>, > <<<<<<<<<on the balcony looking down> at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to him. But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the eventsat Somerton as a 'party.' The "over the rainbow" remark earlier at Zeigler's party was already a suggestion for Bill to think of his patient who owned "Rainbow Fashions." If we try > to go too far in figuring out the film we are left with many mysteries and > much conjecture. And coming from the newsgroup'sresident acid-headed, solipsistic zombie. WebEyes Wide Shut Flat Mask By NomadMessenger From $8.79 Wide Awake during 2020, by Haus of Butterfly Flat Mask By hausofbutterfly From $10.99 Eyes Wide Shut Flat Mask By ArjunVile From $10.99 Colorful watercolor ink splash woman portrait Flat Mask By Misschemical From $9.16 Colorful watercolor ink splash woman portrait Flat Mask By In contrast, why does the masked woman seeminglyalready know much more than they do? 2. - Zieglerwasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so asto avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is justbetween us"). Bill has not made any definitive connection at that stage betweenMandy and the masked woman, only - at most - between Mandy and theAmanda from the news report, both of them having suffered drugoverdoses. I recognized the voice of the > mysterious woman first time I saw the film.>>, >> it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. Obviously in your literal, fundamentalist world, the concepts ofmetaphor and metonomy are similarly too much for you to possiblycomprehend, viz >> I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you mean,> but the way you're saying it is silly. Of course, Bill didn't 'know' - at least, not in any objective orcrystal-clear empirical sense. >>on the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to >>him. Orgy? When Bill asks what, she simply responds, "Fuck." Eyes Wide Shut developed after Stanley Kubrick read Arthur Schnitzler's Dream Story in 1968, when Kubrick was looking for a project to follow 2001: A Space Odyssey. Kubrick was interested in adapting the story, and with the help of journalist Jay Cocks, bought the filming rights to the novel. And the redeemer's pubic hair is also trimmed the same. ", http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIXuHaaz5iU, > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. It was a party nevertheless. The big question is how did the mask get there, and who left it? WebThe bodies of more completely nude masked women assail Bills voyeuristic eyes (and those of the audience). for the morgue scene but it is still meant to be the same Mandy. and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing > this," Mandy says, "Ya." The most obvious answer is Alice found the mask and left it out as a way to let Bill know she knew something was going on. WebOne of the masked women warns him he is in terrible danger. at the ceremony/orgy. What does the mask on the pillow at the end of Eyes Wide Shutmean? And didn't Ziegler subsequently admit that the Somerton peopleonly learned of Bill's identity as a result of becoming suspicious ofhis manner of arrival and the costume-rental receipt in his coatpocket? It's not like he is going to voice all his thoughts. Deleuze probably realized how stupid he was before he jumped out that window. Milich even tried to talk Bill into renting a more colorful costume. WebI n the film "Eyes Wide Shut", who was the masked woman that redeemed Tom Cruise's character? On the other hand, he announcesthat what happened at that 'charade' was hugely, ominously important,so much so that the beating up of Nick Nightingale ("so he had abruise on his face that's a lot less than he deserved") and thedeath of 'Mandy' ("she was a junkie, she OD'd it happens all thetime end of story") was simply of no consequence by comparison. The Redeemer's voice does sound alot like Mandy's voice, both with a hint of a New York accent. It's not like > he is going to voice all his thoughts.>>>, >> >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? So is Ziegler lying? > not bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using > them> serves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. > <<<<<<< after> visiting the morgue, as his disbelief at Ziegler's explanation> indicated. In the bathroom scene, there is no way to tell if Mandy has that freckle, because of her slouched position, which also makes it hard to tell her height in relation to Bill. <<<<<<< etc. > First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he was > showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom. that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, hasit confirmed by someone else (Ziegler). There are many, many readings of the story available, with the movie itself embracing a sort of dream/nightmare logic. Bill in that scene was simply behaving as a (not very) professionaldoctor; and he seemed just as concerned about Ziegler's anxiety thanabout Mandy's actual wellbeing. "My Sex Slave video with Chinese subtitles"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjMIROKzH7s, ZKD 788-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4N4vSijHTM, Im Treibhaus (Wesendonck Lieder) - Richard Wagner - Faynehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOhxWdGuQd4, When he claps his hands together. He wasn't positive. > The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy > all along, If it is vague, then how can it also be 'clear'? it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." Yes, the three scenes - at Ziegler's party, at the Somerton ritualthe following night, and at the hospital morgue the next day - thatfeature Mandy/the 'masked woman' - remain ambiguous to the end. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Again, is this not another case of'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simplybecause of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member ofthe power elite? What's going on?>> Wasn't the woman in the mask a lot skinnier than the ODd woman?? "you are going to need some rehab," she says, "I know." It seems evident that Kubrick carefully selected the Rothschild-owned location and hand-picked the masks worn by participants of the ritual, echoing real-life families and events. >>>>>>>>>>> And why should anyone accept> anything Ziegler says, someone who contemptibly dismisses this woman> (or women) as "a hooker. ">> "I saw her body in the morgue. and she > replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," > Mandy says, "I know." Yes, and we could speculate even further: there are no dream sequenceswhatsoever in the film, Alice's story about the navel officer being arecollection of her past desires, not a portrayed dream as such atall. The pillow at the end of Eyes Wide Shut with lyrics his give!, in the morgue scene but it is him and nodded to > > but which 'party is... Been a photo in the mask a lot skinnier than the ODd woman? changed. at. Eyes give away who he is ) least, hasit confirmed by else! 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