Furthermore, having the battery life displayed as five bars is positively rudimentary. As in, we totally forgot about it altogether. That said, wed prefer if there were more metrics displayed on the main screen to begin with, so you could ditch the GPS altogether. My Bullit died after 80 miles - same symptoms you describe. e*thirteen is at the table with bike brands to find a mutually acceptable solution that first takes care of keeping people on their bikes. It's a powerful unit with a huge reach, but it has a little problem: it rattles when riding downhill or, simply put, there is no power on the pedals. At 52+ lbs, you're going to be using that motor every pedal stroke. Though the new EP8 motor is claimed to be more efficient than its predecessor, there is of course more power too. I can only hear any motor rattling when I am doing really gnarly rocky downhill. Was thinking the same thing. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Along with the new EP8 motor, Shimano has also released a larger 630Wh battery, which seems to be the most popular option at the moment youll find it inside both the Canyon Spectral:ON and Merida eOne-Sixty. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a 'NORMAL' clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. So despite being an engineer the non-linear noisy nature of the reporting makes it very difficult to plan rides and I almost always finish the last few km without assistance for bigger rides. Aim for a cadence between 70-90 RPM for maximum efficiency and response from the motor. Thanks! Plus integration looks like shit on those Nox bikes. Let us know what you find out. The thing is though, you do actually get used to that noise. That results in a big improvement in how far you can go on the same battery capacity - Shimano claims a 20% increase in range as a result. Weve checked each of their axle spindles and can confirm none are showing any signs of cracking or damage. this dude knows how to write a review, well done. Don't all e-bikes feature walk assist? Visit the high-res gallery for more images from this review. Most brains will be capable of doing this, as the noise in question isnt actually signalling a fault with the motor. All the grit is gone because it's clearly stuck between your bitter little arse cheeks.. So this one article, about this one e-bike, says to you that ALL e-bikes lack refinement and therefore aren't worthy of you gracing them with your holy ass? Its clear why this motor is becoming popular with so many bike brands, given the flexibility it offers frame designers, particularly with the variety of battery options on offer. What this article says to me is that ebikes are no where never the level of refinement that I would require to give up a normal bike. - Can we have remaining battery displayed as a percentage please? is a broken record . In the higher settings, the motor will deliver maximum power without you having to pedal very hard at all. And Im no anti-ebike merchant, been quietly awaiting the age/account balance when I can justify one actually. I love the progression of Ebikes! Dont be so lazy, put in the work and suffer a little bit! Save 30% + G-Form Pro X3 Knee Pads when you subscribe to MBUK magazine. Wed much rather see battery life displayed as a percentage, and the option to customise the screen. The touch points are all up to typical Shimano standards of quality, though we would like to see improvements to the functionality of the display unit, notably having battery life shown as a percentage. I have this motor. In addition to those weve tested, youll be able to find Shimano EP8 on the Santa Cruz Bullit & Heckler, Marin Alpine Trail E2, the Commencal Meta Power, YT Decoy,Pivot Shuttle and Mondraker Dusk. When new the last bar of charge corresponds to roughly 15-20% charge, but over time this becomes 5-10%. This means its impossible to tell whether you have 21% or 49% battery remaining. Now, would we like to see Shimano eliminate the noise altogether? They must be under pressure to deliver units as this is at best rushed. Well, maybe, but he also chucked 20kg dead weight in his bag to try to make things right for you. February 22, 2021. Basically any minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug at the chainring will result in noise. Oh, how the humorous aspect of your comment has been missed. Plus the prices will drop as the tech becomes cheaper and can be offered at lower prices. In the lower settings, youll have to pedal really hard to get maximum support the motor. The problem I have is on the EP8 motor there are 3 ports, 1 for the speed sensor, 1 for the cycling computer and 1 for the derailleur. The DIODE has the Shimano E8000 motor and both bikes regardless of motor specs and differences do one thing really, really wellthey make riding FUN! 5Nm doesnt sound like much on paper, but on the trail the Levos 2.2 motor is noticeably musclier than Shimano EP8, particularly at the extreme ends of the cadence spectrum. We are in contact with both brands and got their own reports regarding this issue, says Commencal. Nothing like on an ebike. Quick everyone, it's another article about e-bikes grab the pitchforks! I have to admit some of the comments make me laugh out loud while others score some points for being helpful and based on fact, not hearsay fiction. It's a similar level of feeling to Gen. I own the Levo SL, and it is the most refined ebike I have ridden so far. Thats given us plenty of saddle time to compare and contrast the new motor not only with E8000, but also with the latest Bosch Gen 4 motor and the Brose-manufactured 2.2 motor in the new Specialized Levo. How many instances of this problem has Shimano encountered? Make it 100 mile range, and I'm in. Have had my Norco Range LVT with the EP8 for a week and have noticed the noise, maybe once? Perfect? For commercial info: [email protected]. According to the TSB, only Shimanos EP8 motor is affected. If you don't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting on this review. Uh oh, another one E-triggered. 214 Overall its a vastly neater execution compared to the likes of Bosch and Yamaha with their Kinder Surprise-style switch units. We recommend only Shimano cranks for usage with our drive units. Bunny hops were absolutely a blast on this bike. What a misstep by Shimano to join Bosch in its failure. This gives a very wide and flexible power band that does well to match what your legs are doing, making this the go-to, set-and-forget mode for proper off-roading. Specialized is close to this. As well as being smaller, lighter and more efficient, the new EP8 drive unit also packs more punch with up to 85Nm of torque, bringing it up to speed with the latest power plants from Bosch, Yamaha and Brose/Specialized. The Shimano EP8 user interface is similarly elegant in its design. The MasterMind TCU head unit on the top tube is also as good as it gets, with a sharp and clear, but unobtrusive display that reduces clutter on the handlebars. The issue, we've been told, is that the motor body is subject to cracking when the drive is employed as a stressed part of the bike's frame. Shimano's EP8 is claimed to have 85Nm of torque and provide up to 500w of peak power, and amplifies rider input by up to 400 per cent. A bike that weighs almost half as much as the rider. @tomdesoals: Yeah, I get that now that bikes have become more silent anything new that makes noise can become annoying. Along with the EP8s magnesium casting, heat sinks and polished logos, it affords a classy look not an easy feat for an e-MTB. JavaScript is disabled. The brand suggests EP8 owners should inspect their motors spindles for damage or cracks originating from the drilled hole used for the pedal crank retainer hook, located on the splined portion of the axle. Yeah, that's pretty poor! I had the same issue with my Yamaha but it was last winter. The charge bars are a major issues though on the 8000, after a bit of use the battery becomes extremely unpredictable. - Tuning options are simple and effective Shimanos latest EP8 electric bike motor, fitted to a host of brands bikes, is reported to suffer from a manufacturing defect that can cause the bottom bracket axle or spindle to develop cracks with use and exposure to the elements, and if left unchecked can eventually fail. Also, your etube app and the software on the bike will not throw a code or have any kind of error. For a mechanic, mechanical noise is a no-no by the end of the ride Id be destroyed mentally! It's like a dirt bike with a 15 mile range. Shimano also claims this issue is. The YT Decoy also utilises its own 520Wh battery and the the Orbea Rise is built around a smaller 360Wh battery. Hey Ralf Hauser!! Can't see the equivalent of a ribbed chainstay protector happening. For those playing at home, that works out as a 21% increase over the existing E8000 motor (70 Nm) and a 42% increase over the E7000 motor (60 Nm). Are we ignoring the fact that motor has been recalled/reworked by Shimano, and pushing all new bike deliveries by two months (at least)? Our advice is not to rely on the range estimation in the first place. Maybe it's specific to the commencal frame design transmitting sounds? Shimano's EP8, short for DU-EP800, features a higher maximum torque of 85Nm compared to the older E8000's 70Nm, topping it by an extra 21%. it's been quite awhile and still no fix . Bosch's Performance Line CX equals Shimano's torque,. Side-by-side, the EP8 motor is slimmer around the belly and so offers a skerrick more ground clearance. If possible, repeat this ride on the Eco and Boost modes too. 2b - If threadlock patch is present, move on to step 3. Does Shimano know why the spindles are snapping? The svelte motor casing provides more clearance for the rear wheel and suspension components, allowing brands to build their bikes with shorter chainstays. Thus, I could ride a few feet with power then the motor would cut off. I've had a go on ebikes and think they're fantastic and good fun. You miss that obscure offering from Specialized? A consumer could also decide to remove the e*thirteen cranks and replace them with a model officially certified by Shimano for use with the EP8. Furthermore, the range estimation is more accurate in our experience too. Local shop worked with shimano and got motor replaced and back to me in 3 days. Click on a component to learn more. Damn, sorry to hear this especially since I own the same bike! With 21% greater torque than E8000, the EP8 motor delivers substantially more punch on the trail, and it feels more usable too. And in terms of backup service and support, the fact that there are far more Shimano dealers than there are Specialized dealers may also be preferable for some riders. Smaller:Compared to the previous model, the EP8's volume has been reduced. The sign of a true technical rider. Put on i9 Hydra hubs, annoying motor rattle sounds disappears. Start with a full battery, select the Trail mode, and see how far you can go before you run out of juice. The Purion controller is vastly simpler and easy to read, but it looks cheap and its bulky, making it an awkward fit with brake and dropper levers. The maximum rider support was raised to 400%, compared to the E8000's 300%. I despise young people buying ebikeswhat a bunch of lazy. The EP8s smooth power delivery is mirrored by its exceptionally low drag something that is totally noticeable (or rathernot noticeable) around the 25km/h cutoff point. In a closed Facebook group called Shimano EP8 Owners, there are also reports of EP8 spindle failures. It is now possible to unlock the speed of the new Shimano EP8 motor with the Flash by Eplus software! 2a - Using a 5mm hex key, loosen counterclockwise and remove the preload cap. I wish real bike reviews were this detailed. It's kinda frustrating. Shimanos overarching advice is for consumers to only use Shimano-approved pedal cranks on its EP8 motors. You still have the three basic assist modes: Eco, Trail and Boost. Personally, were ok with downshifting and spinning our way up a steep incline its better for the health of your knees, and its likely better for the health of the motor too. Wowzers! However, where the Bosch Gen 4 feels like a diesel engine at low RPMs, the sporty EP8 drive unit still prefers spinning at a higher cadence. It's really, really quite quiet. The compact size and a magnesium casing helped cut 300 grams. I'm not an ebike hater - but (you knew it was coming) - I can't ever see myself being able to justify the expense of one and I wouldn't like to risk a second hand one. @tomdesoals: I don't quite get it though. There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. At my age 69, if it isn't fun, exciting, and challenging, count me out! Really? But to give you some numbers, weve consistently achieved around 1,500m of climbing during our 30-50km test rides. A dinamo or recharging when braking or something That's what I'm still waiting for! All bikes [have been] assembled with Shimano cranks since 2021 April.. It's used on Santa Cruz, Kona, Pivot, Norco, Canyon, Scott, YT, Intense and plenty more. There are 5 levels of adjustment from Mild to Quick, with the highest setting requiring only a small rotation with light pedal force to engage the motor. Shimano EP8 motor bottom bracket spindle failures caused by manufacturing defects, ethirteen claims. Here in SoCal where everything is hard pack or loose over hard with lots of rocks, the EP8 motor pretty much constantly rattles when you aren't pedaling. Those Merida ebikes ride quite good too. Maybe 10 days from when I sent them an email and a new motor arrived at my doorstep. Alex is also a regular on the BikeRadar YouTube channel and BikeRadar podcast. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. Durability and ease of maintenence is far more important than power in my world. Subscribe from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! The only Shimano-approved pedal cranks listed on Shimanos website are the FC-EM600, FC-M8150 and FC-EM900, all of which are available to buy aftermarket from various retailers. The three EP8 bikes weve tested all have sub-440mm rear centre lengths, which is quite a bit shorter than the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+ with its much bulkier Yamaha motor, for example. Mine gets very hot. If the other brands we contacted reply to our enquiries, we will be sure to update this article. A further TSB that refers to both Shimanos EP8 motor and e*spec ebike cranks also exists on the brands website. Hitting those famous tracks day in, day out for eight years, he broke more bikes than he can remember. If the magnet and steel nipple aren't aligned perfectly, a variety of problems may ensure. In the end, our test data supports that the root cause is not e*thirteen cranks as Shimano has indicated. Meanwhile, e*thirteens response places the ball firmly in Shimanos court. Good thing with Shimano is warranty,at least here in Madrid is almost instantaneous. If in doubt about such components, we recommend speaking to your bicycle manufacturer.. As it stands, you have to use the small button at the base of the display to manually scroll through additional pages just to see your cadence, estimated range and the time. No ebike is perfect, this is a thread dedicated to sharing known issues or problems with electric motors from Shimano, their STePS system, as well as any help and solutions you know of. Unfortunately frenchies and Germans are not masters of marketing. The brand was made aware of failures occurring when the EP8 motor is used with pedal cranks made by brands other than Shimano, including e*thirteens e*spec ebike-specific cranks. Weve been living with the Shimano EP8 motor for six months now across three different bikes; the Merida eOne-Sixty, the Polygon Mt Bromo, and the Canyon Spectral:ON. Climbs really well and descends like a beast. Here youll find three sliding scales for each of the three assist modes (thats Eco, Trail and Boost). SHIMANO STEPS EP8 Left Switch Unit for Assist VIEW PRODUCT Cycle Computer SC-EM800 EP8 Cycle Computer VIEW PRODUCT SC-E5003 SHIMANO STEPS Cycle Computer with Assist Switch (SD300 port) VIEW PRODUCT Speed Sensor EW-SS302 Disc Brake Speed Sensor (SD300 type) VIEW PRODUCT EW-SS301 SHIMANO STEPS Disc Brake Speed Sensor for EW-SD300 VIEW PRODUCT You can improve efficiency by limiting the maximum torque, though it is still possible to get maximum power out of the motor by pedalling at a higher cadence, so you wont necessarily get more range by limiting torque. Despite the musclier performance, weve had excellent results in terms of range, with the Bosch motor regularly achieving more miles and elevation over EP8. - High quality display & controller I would have respected Shimano more if they owned it and were more forthright about working to resolve it. I find the author of this article is overly picky. This means that if you ride in the default Trail and Boost settings, youll actually end up with a similar total range as the old E8000 motor, albeit with the benefit of more power and assistance throughout the ride. We hope Shimano will join us at that table soon.. The Bosch motor produces the same 85Nm peak torque output as Shimano EP8, and it offers a similarly drag-free ride quality beyond the 25km/h cutoff due to the motor decoupling from the cranks. Maximum power output sits at 500W, although the continuous power output is set at 250W like most motors. You can display way more metrics on it too, and battery is usefully displayed as a percentage. That's it, no recall, but I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. I feel like I've been missing out on so much! Now, we're not going to be working on the actual. I haven't had the privelage to ride any bosch equiped bikes or other shimano bikes but this thing is so quiet I think it would be hard to find another ebike motor that is more silent. Both bikes were fitted with e*thirteen cranks. I have a gen 3 and it's totally quiet when coasting . Seems quite useful for when pushing the bike up these impossible climbs. This occurs if the cap is not correctly tightened or the factory-fitted threadlock hasnt been adequately applied, and if the crank arms pinch bolts arent tightened to their correct torque. While the increased power certainly grabs most of the headlines, we reckon its the compact form of the Shimano EP8 drive unit that offers the greatest advantage over its competitors. Update. If thats the case for you, start at Level 5 and work your way down a notch at a time. Like e*thirteen, Shimano appears to agree that if a consumer were to suffer spindle failure they should speak directly to whoever they bought their bike from, suggesting any motor replacement or repair costs would need to be covered by the bike manufacturer that decided to spec an EP8 motor with e*thirteen cranks. Weve found the first two settings to be too weak for e-MTB use, though conversely the highest setting can feel a little too peaky for some riders. Unfortunately this clutch also produces a metallic clack whenever it rotates back and fourth. The complaints of charge bars on the display and the bike starting without any assistance are non issues for me. I can concur with the range, it's not as good as I expected. Too hot to handle even. Not a big Chan e but worth a look. Funny that motor has a gear box, but only one gear? Lapierre e-zesty. The versatile and powerful SHIMANO EP8 (EP800) e-bike system can be found on a wide range of brands and models. Weve ridden the latest Bosch Performance CX Gen 4 motor on a variety of e-MTBs, including the Cube Stereo Hybrid 160 and the Trek Rail. Approved crank arms are listed at si.shimano.com and are communicated towards bicycle manufacturers. there are no additional ports on the SC-E5003 to connect the switch with. Ebikes are cool but not quite refined enough to jump in yet. Also worth noting is that you can create two riding profiles, which you can alternate between via the menu and push-button on the display. Its also a very quiet motor when pedalling. We will have them soon available in all our subsidiaries (Canada, USA, Chile, Australia, NZ and Reunion Island) to reach all our customers worldwide.. If you discover damage on your EP8 spindle, you should stop riding the bike immediately. So, when the sensor senses a negative elevation gain, the dynamo kicks in to recharge the battery. Since working for MBUK, Alexs focus has moved to bike tech. Gear or similar. Along with the svelte carbon frame, that helps to reduce the total bike weight to as low as 16.2kg, creating a potentially worthy adversary to the Specialized Levo SL. Of course this means it also clacks when coasting over rough terrain, though again, weve gotten used to it within a couple of rides. Then we'll fix that for you. I also got it second hand as I just can't afford new. An e-Mtb allows me to ride farther, and more often and smile from beginning to end, not just the downhill sections! Along with the fault-free performance weve experienced so far, wed have no hesitation in recommending a bike built around Shimano EP8 this is a high quality and well-rounded e-MTB system. So far so good. For a lighter pedal feel than the E8000, the one-way bearing has reduced its rotational resistance, creating a free play. Shimano also claims this issue is entirely isolated to non-Shimano cranks, stating it is aware of 49 reported cases of spindle failure. Environmentally I think they're a disaster as well - rare earth elements in the batteries for one thing. When youre descending down the trail, the volume and resonance are amplified. Having spoken with other long-term EP8 and Bosch Gen 4 users, it would appear that for many riders its a non-issue. Upon a little digging on the internet, it appears that this functionality is only on offer for Garmin users. What is rattling? Also did some trail work. It claims there have been no reported failures of Shimanos E7000 and E8000 motor spindles, even when used with the same e*spec ebike cranks. We like to setup Profile 1 with softer settings for maximum range when riding solo, and Profile 2 with the punchier factory settings for faster e-MTB group rides. If you have a problem you can reapair it very quick. Hopefully your SC dealer will be the concierge for a warranty issue if it's a broke. Bikers Edge in Kaysville Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine. Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. However, the brand refutes a link between the preload caps undoing and any resulting damage to system components in TSB 156, and then goes on to affirm e*thirteen components are not the source of any failures in TSB 157. Limiting the maximum torque is something youll notice more at low cadences in high-load applications rather than general trail riding. An E-bike with 200 watt power assist, 350 WH battery, and total weight of bike under 34 lbs. This is particularly noticeable on traction-poor climbs, even when starting from a standstill. Were currently testing three bikes with Shimanos EP8 motor and one of those has just over 800km on the odometer. Thus when I'm carrying a spare battery I can get up to 60 mile rides in, which e-bike or not, is still a hell of a day in the saddle. The EP8 RS engine is physically the same as the . So that would include rocks, hops, trackstands but also sudden boosts from a standstill. With the Spectral:ON for example, which has very short chainstays and a relatively slack seat tube angle that puts your weight further over the rear axle on steep climbs, it helped to dial down the Assistance Character (to 6/10), the Maximum Torque (to 78Nm) and the Assistance Start (to 4/5) to soften the bikes power and acceleration. Funny that Shimano now budget e-bike motor builds? Our drive units are not tested for use with third party crank arms.. The new EP8 motor is 10-percent smaller than the E8000, and thanks to that size reduction and a new magnesium case, it's 300 grams lighter. And with brands such as Merida and Canyon making use of internal wiring through the handlebars, the whole arrangement is quite tidy. Shimano Consolidates Entry- to Mid-Level Groupsets With New CUES Drivetrains, Video: Tom Pidcock Going Warp Speed on a Road Bike, Porsche Takes Complete Ownership of Greyp, First Look: Reeb's New Steel Enduro Racer is Partly 3D-Printed, www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wanneroo/bicycle-parts-and-accessories/men-s-petrol-bike-mountain-bike-/1259285475, www.cyclevolta.com/story/ebike-components/hold-up-shimanos-new-emtb-motor, www.avdweb.nl/solar-bike/solarbike/maxun-solar-bike. Anyone knows what's are those white (ish) shoes the reviewer is using on some of the pics? There are a lot of factors that influence range including rider weight, tyre choice, trail conditions, and elevation. What can consumers expect to happen if their EP8s spindle fails? I thought ebikes were supposed to enable us to do more fun stuff in less time. As mentioned earlier, the Bosch motor does feel punchier than Shimano EP8, with noticeably stronger support at lower cadences. Power less, battery smaller, it lighter is.. 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Update this article for you, start at level 5 and work your way down a notch at a.... Got it second hand as I expected a smaller 360Wh battery reply to enquiries! Punchier than Shimano EP8 Owners, there is of course more power too had my Norco range with. Enquiries, we & # x27 ; s volume has been missed reply to our enquiries we. Battery becomes extremely unpredictable would include rocks, hops, trackstands but also sudden boosts from a.... Can we have remaining battery displayed as a percentage please fault with the motor claimed to be if... Fun, exciting, and see how far you can reapair it very quick to farther... Subscribe from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket drive Pump, worth!!